Boudreaux on Obama's "Socialism-lite"
I was tempted to put this in the other "Barack the Redistributor" posting, but it's such an important article I decided to post a separate link to it.
This article is by Don Boudreaux, Chairman of the Department of Economics at George Mason University, one of the best economics departments in the nation, complete with Walter Williams, Bryan Caplan, Russ Roberts, and Nobel Laureate James Buchanan. Don is a non-partisan loather of politicians and does not write this article because he's promoting John McCain.
One of the main objections I get from liberals when I call Obama a socialist is that his explicit desire for redistribution doesn't fit precisely in the dictionary definition of the word which revolves more around ownership of enterprises. I have argued that redistribution is such a fundamental aspect of socialism that the liberals' argument is a distinction without a difference.
My reading of Boudreaux's article is that he agrees with me.
I'd also like to emphasize a paragraph in the article:
Consider the words of longtime Socialist Party of America presidential candidate Norman Thomas: "The American people will never knowingly adopt socialism, but under the name of liberalism, they will adopt every fragment of the socialist program until one day America will be a socialist nation without ever knowing how it happened." In addition to Medicare, Social Security, and other entitlement programs, the gathering political momentum toward single-payer healthcare – which Obama has proclaimed is his ultimate goal – shows the prescience of Thomas's words.
See "Is Barack Obama really a socialist?", Don Boudreaux, Christian Science Monitor, 10/30/08
http://www.csmonitor.com/2008/1030/p09s01-coop.html
By the way, Don writes a letter to the editor of a newspaper almost daily and distributes them to an e-mail list. They're short, to the point, and generally brilliant. If you're interested in being added to the e-mail list, please let me know by e-mail at rossputin@rossputin.com or by message or comment from this page.
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10/31/08 @ 06:12:01 am
So true, so true. But expect to be labelled a smear merchant for saying it.
11/01/08 @ 02:35:12 pm
Donald J. Boudreaux is a libertarian...it's not surprising that he would back a "conservative" for President. As a matter of fact, ALL of the economists that you list with him are on the Right side of the political spectrum...what a surprise eh?
"which Obama has proclaimed is his ultimate goal"
Wrong...he's never said that.
11/02/08 @ 10:30:19 pm
By what measure is George Mason even a middle of the road econ university? US News doesn't even bother to give them a ranking.
Anyway that aside, wealth has been redistributed up from the working and middle classes to the wealthiest Americans for 3 decades now. That type of redistribution is just fine by you apparently. It's only when the middle class dares to stand up for itself that you become worried about "redistribution."
That redistribution is fundamental to socialism does not mean that all redistribution is socialism. This is simple logic that any undergraduate could grasp and yet you struggle. All taxes are a form of redistribution, the government takes from all and reallocates the resources. Is it your contention that all forms of government are by definition socialist? That of course would be an absurd position but given your "logic" it's the rational conclusion that one must draw.
11/03/08 @ 06:32:34 am
if you are saying that wealth has been redistributed up by our tax system, that's obviously wrong.
if you are saying that some rich people got richer because of the free market, then that's not redistribution.
If some people earn more than others, then yes that's fine with me.
But you're missing two key points:
1) The total quantity of wealth is not fixed. Nobody need get poor for someone else to get rich.
2) The story about the middle class doing badly over the last few decades is a myth which I will explain/expose shortly in an article.
Actually, I do think all redistribution through taxation is socialism, and I support a flat tax and limiting government to its constitutionally authorized functions.
A government spending money on legitimate functions is NOT redistribution. Redistribution is taking from one person and giving it to another because someone believes the latter needs it more.
Your logical straw men are getting tiresome, Steve.
11/03/08 @ 03:40:55 pm
"if you are saying that wealth has been redistributed up by our tax system, that's obviously wrong."
Really?? According to the IRS, as of 2004, the top 1% of income earners earned 19% of all U.S. income, which was up from 15% in 1999 according to the CBO, and the top 10% of income earners earned 44% of all U.S. income, which is up from 39% in 1999.
http://www.cbo.gov/doc.cfm?index=1545&type=0
The results of "supply-side" economic policies are very, very clear now under two different GOP Presidents (and when Congress was controlled by either Party)...the rich get richer, the poor get poorer, and the federal budget busts wide open, period.
"If some people earn more than others, then yes that's fine with me."
NO ONE is saying that we all need to make the same amount of money...most people are not greedy & would be happy just being able to make enuff to get by and save something for retirement.
"Nobody need get poor for someone else to get rich."
So, the poor AREN'T exploited by the rich?? Please...
"The story about the middle class doing badly over the last few decades is a myth which I will explain/expose shortly in an article."
Don't bother...your hypothesis has already been debunked:
http://www.ipsnews.net/news.asp?idnews=44361
"I support a flat tax and limiting government to its constitutionally authorized functions"
...which would be a HUGE tax giveaway to the rich and which no where near a majority of people in the USA will ever support, period.
11/03/08 @ 05:24:29 pm
I don't care about the argument that the rich made a lot of money.
What I care about is who is paying the taxes.
No, the poor aren't exploited by the rich.
11/03/08 @ 10:02:26 pm
Yet another article explaining why Mister Guy and all liberals with no economic education have it fundamentally wrong:
http://www.ibdeditorials.com/IBDArticles.aspx?id=310602019188647
11/04/08 @ 10:43:36 am
"I don't care about the argument that the rich made a lot of money."
How did I know that you'd skip what the article that I posted was REALLY all about:
"High-rolling Wall Street executives have won pay bonanzas in recent years while the lives of millions of working poor families have gotten worse, a new study shows."
"About 42 million working adults and their children are too poor to meet their basic needs of food and shelter, according to Roberts. Put another way, 70 percent of poor families work, and half are two-parent families, the study says."
"Nationally, more than one in five full-time jobs pays less than 21,000 dollars"
"About 41 percent of working minority families are low income, compared to 20 percent of white families, the study found. One-third of U.S. children are in poor families in which parents work full time.
Between 2002 and 2006, *an additional 350,000 working families slipped into poverty*, mainly because of inflation, loss of good paying jobs and of social support programmes like housing and food assistance."
"The Centre on Budget Policies and Priorities, a Washington think tank, also found that *the number of poor in the U.S. has increased recently*, in its analysis of 2007 census data.
*'This marks the first time on record that poverty and the incomes of typical working-age households have worsened despite six consecutive years of economic growth,'* the centre says.
'The new data show that in terms of poverty and median income, *the economic expansion that started at the end of 2001 was the worst on record*. The data provide fresh evidence that *the gains from the expansion were quite uneven and flowed primarily to high-income households*,' the centre says.
'Corporate profits, by contrast, grew much more rapidly in the 2001-2007 expansion,' the centre says."
"'In the last six to eight months it's been especially bad. Families come into counseling and it's clear they can't avoid losing their home. We've seen a big increase in the people who come to our food pantry,' she said. Overall, the request for services at her organisation has increased 35 percent this year over last, she said.
According to the Institute of Policy Studies, *the rich have become richer and the poor poorer in recent years*. The CEOs of large U.S. companies last year averaged 10.5 million dollars each in total compensation, 344 times the pay of the average U.S. worker.
The top 50 private equity and hedge fund managers pocketed an average of 588 million dollars each, or 19,000 times as much as average workers.
During the past three years, the ultra-wealthy, most of whom live in the U.S., invested 1.9 trillion dollars in hedge funds, according to Reuters"
"The study used data only for the years 2002-2006. If the data included this year, 'you'd find these numbers going through the roof in almost every state,' Roberts said.
Low-income adults work more compared to the average U.S. worker, the equivalent of about 25 percent more hours, Roberts said. The percent of working poor varies greatly by state. In Mississippi and New Mexico 40 percent of workers are poor, the highest percentage among the states. In 13 additional states, 33 percent of workers are poor."
Like I've said before, two of the things that "supply-side" economic policies ensure is that the rich get richer and the poor get poorer, period.
"No, the poor aren't exploited by the rich."
LOL...you can't have a top without a bottom, period.
Let me rephrase that for you..."Yet another Right-wing opinion piece that you'll try and pass off as an actual FACT explaining why the Right has run out of legitimate, factual sources to back up their wild economic claims."
"Stock ownership is highly concentrated."
Gee, I thought we were *all* being affected by the recent economic crisis...it's boo-hoo for the ultra-rich eh??
"The government already redistributes much income, often for the good."
"And government properly redistributes income to reduce hardship and poverty."
So much for the "governments don't exist to redistribute income" argument eh??
"But that's different from attempting to deduce and engineer some optimal distribution of income."
Too bad that's NOT President Obama's goal, period.
11/04/08 @ 12:23:29 pm
You miss my point, as always.
I didn't say I don't care about trying to help alleviate poverty.
I said that the rich were not getting rich at the expense of the poor.
Your insistence that they are simply shows how little you understand about economics.
Again, just because government redistributes income doesn't mean that's why governments exist.
And just because Samuelson is right about something doesn't mean he's right about everything.
Unfortunately, you're right about nothing.
Your blindness about Obama's views is remarkable given how clearly they've been expressed by the man himself.